Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 35, No. 465.
        Department of Digital Humanities, University of Cologne
                      Hosted by DH-Cologne
                       www.dhhumanist.org
                Submit to: humanist@dhhumanist.org


    [1]    From: Dr. Herbert Wender <drwender@aol.com>
           Subject: Re: [Humanist] 35.464: beating swords & words about it (18)

    [2]    From: Henry Schaffer <hes@ncsu.edu>
           Subject: Re: [Humanist] 35.464: beating swords & words about it (64)


--[1]------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Date: 2022-01-16 15:46:08+00:00
        From: Dr. Herbert Wender <drwender@aol.com>
        Subject: Re: [Humanist] 35.464: beating swords & words about it

Willard,

the biblical imperative "swords into ploughshares", in german ears this sounds
quite specifically. I would like co-cite an US-american ex-president:
[quote]

President Reagan to Gorbachev: "Tear down this wall"
https://www.history.com › this-day-in-history › reagan-...In one of his most
famous Cold War speeches, President Ronald Reagan challenges Soviet Leader
Mikhail Gorbachev to “tear down” the Berlin Wall, a symbol of ...[}quote]

This wall was torn down, others are meanwhile erected; and not only the old
atomic swords are intact, the newcoming drones too. And some humanists will
provide a political correct justifications for the 'war against barrbarism'.
Business as uasual ?!

All the best,
Herbert

--[2]------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Date: 2022-01-16 14:53:07+00:00
        From: Henry Schaffer <hes@ncsu.edu>
        Subject: Re: [Humanist] 35.464: beating swords & words about it

Jan Rybicki (perhaps somewhat tongue in cheek) blames translators - and, of
course, this often is the case. But sometimes (echoing Pogo) the fault is
not with the translator but with us.

My favorite example - quoting from the KJV "2 Vanity of vanities, saith the
Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity." The passage continues with
very moving language - but what does it have to do with vanity?
Going back before the translator worked there was 
בהֲבֵל הֲבָלִים֙ אָמַ֣ר קֹהֶ֔לֶת הֲבֵ֥ל הֲבָלִ֖ים הַכֹּ֥ל הָֽבֶל
And so the translator translated הָֽבֶל as "vanity". So the question is
whether הָֽבֶל means "vanity"?  Hmm, is this the question?
*NO*! The question is whether הָֽבֶל *meant* "vanity"?
הָֽבֶל meant and means "a gust of air" - look up the meaning of the name of
Adam and Eve's second son Abel (which, in Hebrew, is spelled the same way.)

So why did the translator use "vanity" - that's because "vanity" had a
different meaning 600+ years ago when it did mean something along the lines
of "transient", "futility", "meaningless" or “emptiness".

So *WE* changed the language. The translator is innocent!

--henry

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 2:56 AM Humanist <humanist@dhhumanist.org> wrote:

>
>               Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 35, No. 464.
>         Department of Digital Humanities, University of Cologne
>                       Hosted by DH-Cologne
>                        www.dhhumanist.org
>                 Submit to: humanist@dhhumanist.org
>
>
>     [1]    From: Jan Rybicki <jkrybicki@gmail.com>
>            Subject: Re: [Humanist] 35.462: Beaten, Beating, Breaking,
> Broken (88)
>
>     [2]    From: scholar-at-large@bell.net <scholar-at-large@bell.net>
>            Subject: Swords Reforged (82)
>
>
>
> --[1]------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         Date: 2022-01-14 08:17:23+00:00
>         From: Jan Rybicki <jkrybicki@gmail.com>
>         Subject: Re: [Humanist] 35.462: Beaten, Beating, Breaking, Broken
>
> Interesting! Most Polish Bibles use the smithery-specific word for working
> metal, "kuć", with the prefix "prze-", "przekuć", that conveys the
> phenomenon of
> transformation. This greatly limits the various connotations with "beating"
> suggested by François.
> When you think of all those different interpretations, we should probably
> blame
> translators for wars of religion.
> God bless you,
> Jan
>
> Wysłane ze smartfona w T-Mobile, sieci największych możliwości.
> Pobierz aplikację Outlook dla systemu Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
> ________________________________
>




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